With the 63rd pick in R2, the Giants drafted WR Reuben Randle.
With the 94th pick in R3, the Giants drafted CB Jayron Hosley.
Reuben Randle is reasonable value at the end of R2. He is not a potential game-breaking WR like Hill. He is an okay WR. He has routine size and routine speed. This was why Wonder had him 80th in the draft. The Giants picked him 63rd and had him rated in R1. I hope the Giants are right!
Jayron Hosley is another story. On this pick, Wonder was in complete agreement. From his draft board: "All he does is makes plays and intercept the ball. Smaller guy, but quick, perfect slot or nickel back. 9 INTs at Va Tech. In today's NFL, he's your slot guy. Not physically strong enough for outside CB."
Wonder adds more color on Hosley: "Smooth hips. Great transition. Good backpedal. Quick." Considering he was 51st on the board and taken at 94, that is tremendous value.
It was a very interesting second day in the draft. When Offensive Tackle Bobby Massie fell to 63, I felt that that was the pick, to protect Eli, especially with McKenzie gone. The Giants went with a WR. Was this acute need? The way the NY media has been talking for the last two days, WR was imminent in R1 and again in R2, so don't tell me this was BPA, it was based on a perceived need to replace Mario Manningham VERY EARLY. But as we saw in the SF playoff game, you have to keep Eli upright. When Eli is comfortable in the pocket, he is lethal. Massie fell again and was there in R3, and he was passed on again. By this point it was obvious that there was something wrong with the player. The NFL will release investigative reports on players, so the fact that every single team laid off of him thru 3 rounds means he must have some kind of baggage. We do not spread rumors on this site, this is just a somewhat reasonable guess/conclusion.
Massie or no Massie, let's talk about the simple elements of football. Eli took a quantum leap last year. He was simply awesome, playing at a high level consistently all season. He carried the team on his back in many games. It was not a fluke either. He'll be able to play at this level for the next 5 years, assuming he remains healthy. With that kind of QB, all he needs is time. If he is kept clean, there is little that can hold him OR THE GIANTS back.
Seubert is gone. O'Hara is gone. McKenzie is gone.
How many of you are you going to argue with the statement that ELI MANNING IS THE FRANCHISE...?
Protect his health. Protect his lanes. Protect the franchise. Who is going to do this reliably- Diehl? Beatty? Brewer? Aldon Smith was a young rookie beast (14 sacks) for the 49ers last season and he is coming back for more this next season. We face SF during the regular season and we may very well face SF again in the playoffs. You have to protect Eli in these games and you have to protect his career as well.
Two years ago (if LBer wasn't there) we wanted Iupati or Pouncey. Last year we wanted Castonzo. This year we wanted Glenn in R1 and then Massie in R2. I really do not care if one is good or not. It is about priorities. WR is candy. These toys named Wilson and Randle joining Nicks, Cruz and Bradshaw... it is great. Believe me, I love the toys just like anyone else. I just want to have the time and ability to play with them, and an OL is what allows you to do that. Will I feel better with Petrus at LG and Boothe at Center? Yes. That way I know we can run the ball. But in pass protection, our Tackles are not consistent. Maybe Beatty improves. But isn't it Reese who says that he wants competition in camp?
Defense wins championships. With Eli playing at such a high level now, the mantra is: Protect Eli and win the game. I am optimistic that Wilson, Randle and Hosley are going to contribute meaningfully. At this point, I would say that Beatty and Diehl are the two most important players, because we know where everything else is.
I was hoping that Giants would take a OL in either R1 or R2. I completely agree that Eli must be protected. I have nightmares when I watch reruns of the 49 game. I know there is hidden talent out there. I hope they find it. But, u know what they say; HOPE is not a strategy. I also know that I'm not that smart about the NFL, and Mr Reese is; so I'm leaving this in his hands.
I guess I'm "kind of" okay with a Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee, Diehl line.
But it doesn't exactly give me warm and fuzzies, or give me a massive feeling of confidence...
i agree with Andy on the principle that I would like to see the Giants put a higher priority on the OL. I keep hoping they will draft a top-notch lineman that can be depending on for several years. Like Snee for example. Wasn't Snee taken in the 2nd round? Sure, you can find decent linemen in the middle rounds, but i wish the Giants would put a higher priority on the line. We have been spoiled with Eli's health. Protect Eli!
Has anyone pointed out that GLENN WARCISKI thought the Giants would draft David Wilson, and he was the ONLY one? He is the only guy who saw that coming? INCREDIBLE!
People on this blog, ANDY and WONDER and everyone else are great, but we need to start giving GLENN more credit as well. He knows football and he knows whats best for this team. He brought me to this blog and I am still shocked that he called out that pick.
Glad to see a WR and a slot CB added.
Waiting for some OL and S.
I think we have our LBs for next season.
For what it's worth, I've heard the exact opposite in regards to Randle. According to Greg Cosell, who's opinion carries a lot of weight, Randle might be the best WR in the entire draft. He compares him to Nicks, and says that his speed on the field is outstanding. Says he separates. So while his forty time at the combine might not have blown anyone out of the water, he knows how to get open, and once he catches the ball he can take it to the house. Not only that, he's fearless over the middle and he has great hands. He played with crappy QBs at LSU, but he still produced as a senior in the SEC. Not sure how you'd describe him as having routine size - he's 6'3", 210 lbs. He's also got big hands. And he runs a full route tree. Not like Hill who just runs deep (as far as we know, considering that's all they had him do at G. Tech.) I love the pick. Randle should have gone to the Rams at the top of the 2nd round, or even to the Browns at #22 in the first. Completely disagree with you and Wonder on this one. And from what I've heard about Hill, he doesn't play as fast as his forty time. Only time will tell, I guess.
I agree that the Giants need to stockpile some more talent at O Line, particularly OT. The line was just flat out bad last season. I think that had a lot to do with Diehl and McKenzie. Baas was also a disappointment, but I think he may have been hurt. I expect the Giants to address OL in the next few rounds and stockpile some talent. But lets see what Brewer, Boothe, Petrus, and Beatty bring to the table before we write them off. I think Snee will bounce back. Also, don't forget they signed Locklear. I wouldn't say I'm thrilled with the situation, but I am open to seeing how it plays out. I think the Giants like to pick these guys a few years before they need them, let them develop, then let them compete when they're ready. And I think this often coincides with when they have a need.
I also think it's not really fair to say on the one hand that the Giants greatest "need" is obviously at OL, then say they obviously drafted for need when they picked Randle. Feels like you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. This pick screamed BPA to me, but I guess I could be wrong. But I think it's a major stretch to say the Giants front office bows to media pressure. If anything, they come across as not caring what the media or fans are clamoring for.
One more note about Wilson and Hosley - they are both supposed to be great returners. Hosley is supposedly a great punt returner. Can't remember the last time we had a good punt returner. I'll be excited to see our return game much improved. It was a glaring weakness last season.
@TC4EVA excellent post.
i trust the giants to draft well overall, then coach-up/develop, which their track record displays. they pay huge $$ and have many people working 24/7 to analyze the players. they know far more than anyone commenting on this blog. still, we all know players [and who coaches them] are not an exact science, so there will be hits and misses. the giants, at least recently, are making ridiculous choices like some over teams. they choose with good probability.
BPA is either picking someone who is way above others when you pick, but also can be when you have several positions equally rated and you pick the need.
RB: the giants definitely needed a RB is this draft. we know of their recent late-round success. but i think wilson was a fine pick.
WR: i saw no desperate need. yet, i thought they might draft a WR in rounds 1-3. i read some other site that had randle rated high. getting him at the end of the 2nd is a good value.
CB: we needed one. i expected one to be chosen in rounds 1-3. i agree about holsey being a nickle and slot corner. i like the fact that he has a lot of pick-offs. good value.
OL: we need more. the run blocking was not good last year. i know there were injuries. i think we will be ok though. beatty, petrus/boothe, baas, snee, diehl/brewer. remember we develop players. 3 of those are #2s--that is good talent. diehl was find, i feel the same with petrus and boothe. dont know about brewer yet, but if he is, we will be ok. diehl and snee are getting up there in age. regardless, i expect a high draft pick--#1 or 2--on the OL in the next two years.
@TC4EVA I agree with almost everything in this post. Thanks. I would only add that Randle should be especially valuable to us in the red zone -- much more than a toy -- because of his size, good hands, and proven production in traffic. Also, he's not used to getting the ball a lot so he ought to adjust better than most high-end wide receivers to being the no. 3 receiver. And I think that having a really good no. 3 is invaluable for us given our other assets. It leverages Eli, Nicks, and Cruz. But Andy is right about one thing: last year we should have taken Castonzo or Carimi in the first round. I hope Jerry has a tackle he really likes dor one of those fourth round picks. Perhaps Brown from Troy?
@TC4EVA Wonder's reply on Randle: "I respectfully disagree with Cosell's belief that Randle is an accomplished receiver...he has average+ size in today's NFL for a "big" receiver, he has average speed, and is NOT a great route runner or great coming out of his breaks...I did predict him to be a starter in the NFL, but NOT a superstar in my opinion...on top of that, while not rational, LSU receivers have an AWFUL track record...a lot of Randle's success has come from the overall talent of his team and "tricking" the opp...I just pray he's not another Chad Jackson (NE's pick from FLORIDA a couple of years back) or god forbid LSU alumni DAVIS."
This is Andy again.. hey, Wonder has him as a "3," a solid starter. Along with Cruz and Nicks, that can be more than enough.
You can't have it both ways.I am going on record saying that Randle going to the Giants where he went was a very good move.
What wonder seems to ignore is that L.S.U. wins on defense!
As I have said over and again,this draft would see an inordinate amount of first rounders from Alabama,L.S.U. and Stanford.
The reason is that both L.S.U and "bama" had defenses arguably better than a few NFL teams.
Offense was another story as neither team could hit the broad side of a barn.
Bama had Trent and little else,L.S.U. had just "little else.
I included Stanford as Luck had two guys who kept him safe and few can argue that drafting Fleener first in round two was not a good move. Fleener is a kick ass receiver who cannot block! The situation in Indy giving Luck one player he is in sync with from day one strikes me as smart.
Look at the first three rounds and lo and behold out of the first5 24,six or seven came from these 3 teams.That's 25% . I don't know that that happens very much,
You can attribute that to a very weak number of teams in college.
Last,I would disagree with Wonder about Randle's size and ability. The guy has game and 5'3' is taller than most. What should the Giants do so deep in? Randle was indeed a value pick.
Wonder is right about L.S.U. recievers but a team that relies almost exclusively on the pass needs as much depth as possible.
There are injury concerns with Hosely and his size matters too. He had injury problems but played well when he played.
This is where I part ways with the Giant draft. They need OL help!!,they need someone to block for Bradshaw and Wilson and did next to nothing about it.
I too thought Massie was a very worthy second but as Andy said I think there is something we don't know.
The Giants extended Kiwi for 3 years with a very heavy back loaded deal. I would wager he never sees year three or four.
Osi is toast or so it seems and you know my opinion about that.
Was it the Giants that got it together or was it Afterburner being brought in as a defacto outsourcing of the staff that got us going.
We won and that's always cool but for me there was a lot missing
let's see what happens this year as several teams including arch nemesis Philly got better.
@TC4EVA I'm glad that others, including Cosell, think differently. I hope Cosell is right, now that Randle is a Giant. Re the height, w well over 200 players that Wonder evaluated, he quite possibly made a mistake there. I will try to get more color on that.
My comment about the Giants re need and BPA is that they always like to say that they draft for BPA, yet the beat writers were obviously being fed a high likelihood in advance that the Giants were eyeing WR, so this has zero to do w any double standard here. I want need and value. The Giants want need and value too, but they make it seem like it is value only, when it is both.
This had zero to do with the media. The media was merely my 'tell' that the Giants were targeting WR all along. I agree completely that the Giants do not bow to media pressure. The media in this case were merely reporting the crumbs they were fed by their sources, which were very good in cluing them to the high likelihood that the Giants would indeed be going WR.
I am excited about the prospect for better returners in specials. The Giants were very excited about Chad Jones before the car accident, and it has taken a while to get back to a place now where one of these rookies can make an impact.