When the NY Giants started the season 0-6, everyone understood that the season was for all intent and purposes over. After the team was fortunate enough to face 4 consecutive garbage QBs
Freeman, barely days old a Viking
Pryor, with an MCL sprain
.. there was some remote hope that Beason, Hill and Brown could make the team somewhat competitive while we waited for the miracle of a pass rush from JPP. We asked aloud, Mirage or Makeover?
The Dallas game answered the question, that the team's ability to be competitive (even against a Tier 2 team) was a mirage. After a one week respite vs the equally hapless Redskins, we once again got another dose of the Tier 2 blues from two weeks ago- a resounding loss at the hands of 5-7 SD that sealed shut the season. The win by SF and PHL has mathematically ended any chances for getting to the playoffs.
IT WAS INDEED A MIRAGE.
The Giants are 5-8. They have beaten 4 substandard QBs and the Redskins. Every other team beat the Giants. If the Giants had played a healthy Pryor, they would have lost. If the Giants played against Ponder, or even Cassel, they likely lose. If the Giants would have played vs Foles, they definitely would have lost. If the Giants played vs Rodgers, they probably lose that one too. Of course those are four "if's" but the point is that Reese and Mara cannot afford to fool themselves or anybody else. This team needs major changes.
1) Get a new Offensive Coordinator
2) Get a new Specials Teams Coach
3) Get a new Strength and Conditioning Coach
4) Draft Auburn LT Greg Robinson (in Round 1) if he declares in 2014. Move Beatty over to Guard and get a paycut. Move Boothe to Center.
5) Draft another Guard (like they did in 2004 with Snee) in Round 2. 10 YEAR ROAD GRADER PLEASE.
6) Start getting Damontre Moore snaps NOW in 2013.
7) Part ways with Nicks, Diehl, Snee, Webster, Kiwanuka, and Baas.
8) If you want to re-sign Tuck, do NOT give him a contract longer than 3 years, or if so, just make sure it is economical after he invariably gets hurt in 2014.
9) Re-sign Joseph.
10) Medically evaluate if JPP can regain his form from 2011 and the first half of 2012.
I am really getting disgusted with the complacency with which this organization is handling Eli Manning's health. It started with Reese's outright negligence in not filling the pipeline adequately over the past 3-4 years with meaningful (Rounds 1-3) talent to supplant the aging OL. If you keep Eli upright he can be an extremely effective quarterback. If you give him a competent OC who can make inter and intragame adjustments, he will be subjected to less punishment and be more effective. Instead, we have all the toys (Randle and Wilson in 2012 draft) and NO BEEF to protect the franchise.
We all know Tom Coughlin is coming back as Head Coach next year. But everyone in America would be going absolutely F#$%^&@ Nuts asking why Eli Manning was in the game with 2 mins remaining and his team down by 23 points. (THIS HAPPENS ROUTINELY.) Perhaps it was to see him get crunched on the first play from scrimmage (which he did)? Perhaps it was to get hit on one of those sucker cheap shots that Defenses like to take against opposing QBs, which they are legally allowed to do when you throw an INT (which Manning did at the end of the game)? Without Eli Manning, this franchise has nothing. Like him or dislike him this year, this franchise is getting back to the promised land with him under Center. So take care of the asset that he is.
In this wrapup, I did not talk about the delays of game, Murphy still running the wrong route, the endless turnovers, lining up offsides for another FG try, the SD gameplan which exposed our LBers in coverage, etc... The season is over and blogging at this point is like dead-man-walking.
I want to see meaningful changes and I know that most/all of the visitors to this NY Giants blog community want to see them too. It is not too far off to see the Giants a great deal more competitive next year. But it all starts with the reality that this team is not a 5-8 team going north. It is a 5-8 team that could easily have been much worse. It is a 5-8 team that was in it this long only because the rest of the NFC East was so god awful too. It is a 5-8 team with structural issues that need to be addressed. NOW. At the end of the season, if we hear from Reese the same phony DENIAL we heard from him at the bye, then it just means that we are no closer to the meaningful changes that we need. Retooling begins right now. Confront the brutal facts. This is not a very competitive football team and it needs changes.
Would not surprise me if they come out and play inspired like in the 90's when they beat a previously unbeaten Broncos team. The Giants are notorious for playing to the level of their opponents in the past.
I agree Andy. I want to see what we have on our roster. Was it not too long ago that we heard the ever omnipotent Jerry Reese talk about Adrien Robinson as the "JPP of Tight Ends?" My understanding is that he is healthy but appears on the inactive list every week!...Is that a miss? Let's see what he can do already.
Unfortunately that has been a common theme, the comparisons to teams from the 1970s. Those teams had talent on defense and no talent on offense. This team has enough talent to better than 5-8. It also has very little talent on the OL. The best thing about 2013 is that Pugh has gotten snaps. Coughlin needs to be getting the younger players snaps for many reasons, including pushing the older players. Coincidence that a game after Nicks didn't dress he showed up vs WAS? That's how Parcells motivated. Play for me or I'll find somebody else. It's find somebody else time.
I'm looking forward to this weekend's game, just to see if this is the same Giants team and win-plan that was presented on the field in San Diego.
Brad Gagnon's article is spot on!!!
I agree with everything Andy Furman wrote, especially the need to use high draft picks for OL. I will assume that Jerry Reese is right that Eli has not forgotten to play QB, and the timing of pass plays is off mainly due to a leaky OL. If they get that unit solved they can sustain drives, and they're not far from challenging for supremacy again. They could also use a LB who can blitz.
There is just so much blame that has to go around here this season. From Jerry Reese all the way down the line. But what really stands out here is the total ineptitude of Kevin Gilbride. Yesterday's game illustrated to me exactly what the problem has been all season.. Phillip Rivers has a weak O-Line but this season he has completed 70.3% of his passes has thrown 26 Touchdowns with only 9 interceptions. How can that be? Last year he had an awful season. What did the Chargers do? New Head Coach Mike McCoy brings in the talented Ken Whisenhunt to be the new OC. Eve with a questionable OL he has Rivers taking 3 step drops. This is just a simplistic observation from yesterday, but the Giants have lived with Gilbride for just too long. Let's face it, the Giants will never fire Coughlin, but there should now be a plan in place that he isn't going to coach for too much longer. He will be 68 next season and I believe the Giants have to take a look at what their future will be. Is the next HC on the staff now? Oh please, I certainly hope not. There isn't a guy on the staff I believe that will be a successful HC in the NFL. In this era of the "Pass Happy" NFL, Eli Manning has passed for 3254 yds and 16 TD's and 20 Int's. Totally unacceptable! in 2011 he had nearly 5000 yards with 29 TD'd and 16 Int's. Yes, the poor O-Line & unreliability of Hakeem Nicks has contributed to that this season, but Gilbride failed to make the adjustments and go to a shorter passing game to compensate for our deficiencies. If TC is going to be here for the next 2 or maybe 3 years, then I believe he should be looking for his successor. That should start with a new OC as the first order of business.
I might be wrong but I think Coughlin will retire. There will be speculation that he was pushed but regardless he must know that this team, under him, even with a good draft, is headed nowhere.
Andy, I agree with the 3 coaches you point out that need replacing. Since no one has commented on the strength and conditioning coach, I agree with your point on changing the strength and conditioning coach. The whole S&C program needs to be revamped. Similar to the OC, I am guessing the S&C program is out of date. ACLs and broken bones are one thing. But all of the ham strings, groin injuries, etc - I would like to see a statistic as to how many of these type of injuries the Giants have compared to other teams.
If the Seahawks come into Giants stadium (ok, Metlife....) and really embarrass the Giants in front of the home crowd with Mara in attendance, then lost to Washington on the last game of the year, would that be enough embarrassment to the owners to convince them that coaching changes need to be made? Will that be enough? Like many of you, I think this team is just spinning its wheels until Gilbride and his offensive system is shown the door.
I went to the game... should have stayed home. There were a lot of Giants fans tailgating. We were talking before the game about what needed to happen for the Giants to win. Didn't take a quarter to find out this team is still the same 0-6 team. Shameful. Humiliating. I'm now hoping Mara doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to endure this embarrassment for another season. All he'd need to do is call JR into his office and say, "Fix it now. Have a nice day." If Mara wants to show everyone how patient he can be, then very little will change, probably until TC's so old that he can't remember he's a football coach anymore. TC's now quoted as saying the last three games are for respectability. No Tom, they're not. The last three games are about getting to the playoffs in 2014. Sit starters like Diehl and get your bench strength on the field and prepare them to benefit from regular season game reps. I now understand why Nassib wasn't out there last night when the game was well out of reach. TC wants to play for respectability. And if Eli breaks his leg ala Joe Theisman against the Seahawks, then what TC? Put Painter out there to continue playing for respectability? Let's set aside your respectability and see what Nassib's got that was worth two picks, and just maybe he'll show JR enough to consider not carrying three QBs next season.
I think it's a little much so imply this "deserved" to be a 1-12 type team. However short of that, the points are well made. I agree with the entire list of 10 things. Like capt george I'd hate to lose Nicks for variouis reasons, but Andy is correct as well; there's no reasonable scenario in which he can be brought back.
Maybe it makes me cynical as dbs said. But I have a bad feeling Gilbride will be back regardless. As the mayor said, the oline (to be fair not entirely in Gilbride's control) may be made the sole scapegoat, disregarding the other issues.
This is one of the reasons why I've argued with capt george about "rooting/hoping for losses" as that assumes they'd actually get rid of Gilbride in ANY scenario. We can't assume that.
Fewell I think needs to go , but if he doesn't it might not be the end of the world. Priority list is (1) OC, (2) oline. If those two things are taken care of successfully, a lot more could potentially fall into place. Taking care of those two things is easier said than done. As I said in the comments last week, I like the core of guys on defense (assuming JPP can get healthy, and Williams/Paysinger continue developing.
First and foremost, purge the shitbride so that the healing can begin.
As I have noted before, I like Nicks for his potential and talent. But I will not reward what took place in this, his contract year. At best he is oft injured and at worst he is a malcontent. Next. Someone else will pay more for his services than he's worth. The only possible way to bring him back would be with a contract like the one Arrington got in 2006, laden w performance incentives to protect the giants from his body going AWOL. And he won't agree to that, so NEXT.
Re Fewell, I have no problem gtg a new DC. There is precedent in 2007 for a new (OC and) DC. I am skeptical they get rid of both, and the urgency to move on from Gilbride is more important than Fewell. In many Giants losses this season, Fewell's defense was not the problem.
I agree with you about Nicks not being easily replaceable. The problem is you'd be paying him on the hope he can be the Nicks of '09-11 and not of the past two years. For whatever reason, he's not getting the separation he used to. Is it injuries? Dissatisfaction with how he's being used? I don't know. But you're absolutely right, IMO, about the difficulties of winning without a true #1. It's just hard to know if he really is one anymore.
Maybe I'm not as cynical as other people here, but I'm fairly confident that KG will be let go. Even when they ran off a string of wins, and won 5 of 6, the offense underperformed. I think the front office will see Eli's play this year as extremely troubling and decide that they can't bank on KG fixing what's wrong. Coughlin may be back, even Fewell (sadly) may be back, but Gilbride and Quinn, IMO, will be sent packing.
Only thing I disagree with in the above post is the importance of Nicks. They part ways with him this team will never see another SB with Eli unless they get lucky and get another true number #1. You can't win in the NFL anymore without one true stud WR. Case in point, when Plax went down, so did the Giants. When Brady did not have Gronk, they were not nearly as good. The only way to overcome that is with a super QB like a Rogers or Big Brother Manning. Eli is just not good enough.
This is pure frustration and our complaints fall upon deaf ears. Coughlin will be here and he will not fire either Shitbride or Fewell. Maybe Quinn gets the Axe but I doubt that even happens.
Draft an OL u say? Pssh... nonsense Reese will Draft another DL round 1 and a receiver to replace Nicks Round 2. Bass will be wearing blue even though he sucks and is tied with Meyers and Canty for the worst Reese signing ever. Diehl will be kept for the vet min. Snee old dear son in law will get a cap friendly deal. Lber will be ignored cause hey we got Beason now and pay singers beginning to flash some talent.
Don't you guys get it? It's going to take wholesale change as in a new regime top to bottom before we see rookies starting and actually playing to evaluate talent, reasonable drafting not ignoring glaring weaknesses and doing shoddy jobs of picking guys up in FA, and biggest of all us running an offense that utilizes our strengths. A hurry up spread offense that takes advantage of the pass friendly NFL. Slants, screen passes, quick hitches, and most importantly use of the tight end in the red zone. We finally got a little taste of that today but too little too late. Killdrives offense is old and outdated but Coughlin will go down with him and it sure as hell won't be next year. The curse of those 4 crap games against garbage qb's robbed us of wholesale change. It's gonna be 2 more years of garbage before anything changes!
Amen. The ineptitude of this offense is the main storyline of the season. The slowness with which they play--even when they're down four scores and time is fast running out--is simply mind-boggling. No pace, no urgency at all. A new offensive coordinator is a must. But the problems with personnel run deep as well. The line is a disaster. Perhaps moving Beatty to guard will help, but I'm not so sure. In the past, to the extent he's succeeded, it's been more based on finesse than power. And I don't even recall if Boothe is signed for next season. Then you have to fill Diehl's spot…it's a mess. But the receiver core is also in iffy shape. Nicks is almost certainly gone, and while letting him walk is certainly justified based on this year's performance, I'm not convinced Randle can step into the shoes he once wore. Maybe--all the more reason a new offensive coordinator is needed to find out. And after Randle and Cruz…nada. Nothing at tight end either.
But I'm curious why you'd spare Fewell the axe. The defense was dreadful today, and while they've certainly played better the last two months--and have been strong against the run throughout the season--the fact is, whenever they've been matched against a top-flight QB who can attack them underneath, they've been toast. Again, the personnel is deeply flawed here too. You watch the speed and ferocity of the LBs in the SEA-SF game and realize they're playing a different game.
@capt george so far the D has been doing justthat. The O has to give Eli more time. That pic I believe was a back shoulder fade that Eli was a bit off on.
@I Bleed Blue Outstanding. Pretty much nailed it across the board.
I don't think it will be enough. They still love the guy and he loves killdrive. Like the mayor said, Oline will be scapegoat to keep the status quo.
I never assumed they would get rid of him in any scenario, what I do believe is without a total collapse, they will definitely NOT make a change. Hence, my argument for lossing.
Only if they went 2/14 would they fire Tom and/or force him to get rid of killdrive. Winning 5 games to me means the same old same old exactly like the Mayor said. Only thru being very very bad for a year would the owners make a change. With those 4 garbage wins (will not put washington win in there) we are doomed to at least 1 more year of poor coaching.
Andy, you don't think Nicks was just hurt? I have no idea. I don't have time anymore to read up on the team like I used to. The only news I read about the Giants is this blog. (jezz, i'm getting old and lazy. lol)
What I have seen is Nicks much better in the last few games they I have seen him in a few years and like i said, in this NFL, you need a true stud #1 to put you over the top. I like your idea of the Arrrington type deal (I would have loved to see how good that team would have been had he stayed healthy, he was just coming around when he went down)
Their scapegoat is going to be injuries to the o line causing elis down year and the offensive struggles. Shitdrive will still be on the sidelines 2014
I keep hearing we can't lose Nicks because we need a stud #1 receiver. Who says the Giants can't find/draft another #1 receiver? And, I thought Cruz was the Giants #1 receiver? Why else did the Giants sign him to the huge deal he got at the beginning of the season?
@capt george good point. While a WR to replace Nicks has to be high on JR's list, I would argue OL-men who aren't late round rookie projects or FA journeymen but bona fide players like Pugh are a more pressing need. They've got Eli for the next half dozen years. WRs will come and go over that period, but that line needs to be established, stable and elite while Eli's still on the roster if they're going to win more Super Bowls with him. The Broncos weren't about to waste what little time they had left to win Super Bowls with Payton by standing him up behind a mediocre line. Payton has been hit just 40 times this season, compared to Eli's 67, and sacked just 15 times compared to Eli's 33. Put Payton behind his brother's line and Denver's not a Super Bowl contender. Payton has Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, and Wes Welker. In my humble opinion, Eli would be good enough behind Payton's line with RR, Cruz, and Mario Manningham back for 2014... along with a TE who fit the Giants scheme, if he's not already on the roster like maybe Adrien Robinson and Larry Donnell, but we won't really know unless TC decides they need regular season game reps over the final 3 games.
Actually, mayor, I think we all "get it". Nothing will change until a new coaching staff and a GM are installed. However, Mara and Tisch won't make that extreme move because their is NO financial enticement to make them go in that direction. A waiting list for season tickets will do that for a team's ownership!
@the mayor The Mayor Said, "The curse of those 4 crap games against garbage qb's robbed us of wholesale change. It's gonna be 2 more years of garbage before anything changes!"
I guess he gets a pass cause with the hand he is dealt, ie: no LB's, hurt DE's he has made the best of it.
@capt george I will always be a Giants fan but that would come close to doing me in.
@capt george I was just listening to the Giants morning call-in show (Big Blue Kickoff) and I can already hear them setting up the OL as the fall guy. The OL has been a mess but that is just one cause for the Giants state of affairs. It is even more depressing if the Giants management doesn't see that there is something inherently wrong with the offensive system.
@capt george Well not to split hairs, but at 5-7 you were still arguing for that, and you're now saying 5 wins is already enough to keep the status quo...j
Anyway, we'll see I guess. For a proud franchise, I'd hope that these last two years are enough to make changes. We can't expect Coughlin to go, but Gilbride is at least a possibility. Let's hope it comes to fruition.
To everyone that says, “Our offense sucks because of poor O-line play”, a good OC would take that into account and call plays that play into the O-line's strengths. Unfortunately, KG does NOT know how to adapt to the level of talent he has on the field and just continues to blindly send in his script of plays. Even if we had a good O-line, our offense wouldn't be much better because KG's plays are so old school that defenses already know what's coming their way and easily defense the play calling.
In the last 40 years, when have the giants really drafted/traded for a stud WR? Plax and Nicks are it. Toomer was good but not a stud.
Odds are against it if past history is any indicator of future happenings.
I don't think they are mutually exclusive any more. You almost always need both. An Oline and a stud WR.
@mkdrep @the mayor Somewhere I read that one of the most important things to Mara is that the Giants are still playing meaningful games in December. In recent years even thought they didn't make the playoffs the final game still meant something - there was a chance to get in the playoffs. This year, by early December the Giants are of totally out of the playoff picture. So based on that, would that be enough to make Mara decide to make coaching changes?
If Seattle comes into Giants stadium (Metlife) and embarrass the Giants, then the stadium is half empty for the Redskins game (even with the seats being paid for) - you would hope that would be enough for Mara to say, "That's enough...."
The world would be perfect if PF was the third leg of the trio that is never on the NYG sidelines again! :-)
CommanderShepard You want me to give up my dream of a world without killdrive and TC on the sidelines? Never. I can always hope.