More mistakes, Part 6.
3 turnovers. No pass rush.
Eli throws 2 picks in first 2 drives. Was Jernigan and then Randle on the wrong route tree? The Giants never had a lead, as they dug a hole for themselves that they could not climb out of.
No sacks. Very limited pressure.
At the end of the first half, the Giants are trying to put together a drive. Nicks cannot catch a ball that hits his fingers. But Nicks feet never left the ground- if he jumps up to go get the ball, it is a first down and the Giants may have scored some points. Agreed, if Nicks jumps up for the ball, he exposes his body to injury. But in the NFL, that is called making a play. Nicks did not make a play.
In Q4, Diehl misses a routine pass block. He is actually blocking with help from RT Pugh. Yet what looked like a swim move took the DLman around Diehl to pressure Eli and force an errant throw that could have been one of 4 INTs.
Run defense was not as stout as it was in the first 5 games. The defense was very ordinary, beyond a nice stop at the beginning of the game off an Eli pick.
There were some good efforts. The Giants battled. Beason and Hill looked very good. Jacobs looked terrific, as good as we have seen him in ~5 years. Credit for the run game also goes to FB John Connor and H-back Pascoe. The balanced offense allowed play action to work. The Giants were 7-11 on 3rd down because they had more manageable down and distance and more balance.
355 vs 372 yards. It was a pretty even game except for the big mistakes.
0-6. The Giants play Minn on Monday night. Still searching for a win. Too many mistakes.
This is 1970's mistake-prone football where the team cannot come from behind to win a game to save its life. The 1986 Bobby Johnson catch on 4th and 17 vs MIN was a revelation because the Giants did not have the mental toughness to do that for so many years. I am rooting for the younger players now because most of the older players will be gone next season. If you can lose with the old, the old will be gone so that you lose with the younger guys and build something anew. At 0-6, that is what loyalty to this team is. You hope for JPP to get his pass rush back. You root for young guys like Will Hill. They are the future.
Maybe Killdrive's ultra complex offensive schemes were doable when the off season and camps allowed for enough time and practice to get it down. But as TC commented during camp, there's no longer the same amount of time under the same conditions to establish the same level of proficiency. So Killdrive and TC shouldn't have continued to implement what is by most accounts the most complex offense in football. KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. If the 49ers and Seahawks are able to KISS their offenses enabling rookies to get it done, then Killdrive and TC ought to at least work some of that into their thinking. Sure, the pistol option enables them to dumb it down, and Eli's not running any options. True enough. But certainly Killdrive is able to eliminate the most challenging mental aspects of his game in order to promote consistency and reduce costly errors when players arrive at different answers (aka miscommunication... most notably Eli and RR, Myers, and undoubtedly probable between Eli and the 2s and 3s).
I am looking at this situation with hope. I hope we keep losing and Tom get fired and take Killdrive with him.
Again, echo chamber, but I've gotten so tired of the constant back-and-forth over whether Eli or the receiver (last night, Randle 2x) was responsible for the miscommunication and TO that resulted. The problem is an offensive strategy that simply relies too much on the QB and receivers reading defenses the same way and making extremely risky throws on that basis. Eli's problem with INTs obviously isn't only a function of this strategy. He's always had issues with footwork, accuracy, forcing balls when he shouldn't (though, before recently, he'd improved in all these areas). But the fact is that there simply isn't enough emphasis (again, echo chamber) on the underneath game, on both sides of the ball. Look at how Cutler killed us last night with quick slants, screens, passes to the TE, etc. It's just so frustrating. It's even more frustrating to read a report this morning that TC has essentially been given option to return if he so chooses. Look, I admire TC a great deal. We haven't won as consistently as we should in his years as coach, but two SB runs are nothing to sneeze at. But it's time for change, arguably in the FO as well, which bears as much if not more culpability for where things are at this point. We need fresh thinking on offense and defense--coaches who are better at making adjustments, better as putting players in a position to succeed. The offense has to find a better balance between the vertical passing game that we once thrived at and the kind of small ball that keeps the chains moving. The defense is uninspired, though the main issue seems to be a dearth of talent (or at least declining talent) in personnel. I blame Gilbride more than Fewell, because the problems on offense, the holes on OL and RB notwithstanding, seem more fixable.
To me, this one hurt the most because they were in prime position to win this game. I agree - the lack of a quality tight end is one of the problems. A good tight end catches that last ball even if it is a bit high.
I know this is 'preaching to the choir' but once again this mis-communication between Eli and the receivers - how much of this is because of Gilbride's system? This 'decision tree' of Gilbride's that the receivers and QB have to read at line of scrimmage - seems like with the newer receivers there is a constant problem with this system.
I was really impressed with Jon Beason - and depressed at the same time. It just shows how much the Giants have missed having a quality middle linebacker. To come in after 2 weeks and have probably the best game by a middle linebacker on this team all year - that says a lot about how poor that position has been for the Giants.
How about we also join the modern era with a stable large tight end, instead of a revolving door position. Afterall, Eli has made a career of throwing a bit too high and gettign picked off. Of course, they could have switched Barden there if they wanted someone who wasn't a good blocker.
On a fundamental level they're moving in the right direction. But again with the mistakes. Nicks had a couple catchable balls he couldn't haul in. Receivers not running the right routes combined with a couple questionable decisions by Eli. And the real killer; Myers unable to pull down that pass at the two minute warning. Yes, it was a little high. But with the game on the line that catch has to be made. Graham, Witten, and Gonzalez catch that ball. Hell, I'd argue Boss, Ballard, and Bennett catch that ball 9/10 times also. Horrendous. what good is Myers if he can't make plays in the passing game? We already know he can't block worth crap. Might as well bring back Ramses Barden if we want basically a big slow WR who can't block well in that role.
From here, all we can do is go one game at a time, develop some young guys, and try to get some wins, then see where it takes us. Firing Gilbride I'm sure is too much to ask or expect.
@buljos Problem is they suck as coaches. They are just lucky and when the luck runs out, they get blown out. If I had the time and acually cared enought, I would like to go back and see how many games this team, in the last 7 years has been blow out? How many games did they give up over 30 points?
@capt george While I can never bring myself to "hope" the team loses, getting rid of Killdrive would be a VERY nice silver lining. I'm not sure Coughlin's really a huge problem (other than picking bad coordinators most of the time), and Coughlin involuntarily being dismissed is probably unlikely this year. But if the year goes badly enough, the pressure to ditch the coordinators will be immense. The key is just to make sure we don't then end up with someone just as bad..
@jfostergiants Yes, it seems like it's slightly too much to ask expecting Eli and the receivers to both make the same and correct read off of all these trees.
I also liked what Beason did. He looked relatively fast, and was all over the field. Looks like a good pickup at this point. But. We're 0-6.
The reason why almost any other TE catches that ball is because almost any other TE has 2-3 inches on Myers. I agree he is utterly worthless. Cannot block, but not big enough to be a meaningful force down the middle of the field in this offense.
@capt george @buljos Still don't think it's quite that simple. Blowing out both the Niners and the Packers last year was lucky? Again, there's a lot of truth to this, but at the same time there's a lot more to it than you're claiming, and frankly these last few rants are below the quality of what we've all come to expect from the ultimatenyg moderating team.
We're all frustrated to be dealing with the VERY strong possibility (all but guaranteed at this point) of a lost season. But no need to lose our heads now (if we didn't already after the CAR shutout debacle).
@CommanderShepard Tom is the luckiest person on the face of the planet. The second SB year was just sureal. JPP blocks a FG against dallas and they go on to win the game they had no business winning. The turnovers in the 49rs game was just to much. We have won under him with luck, not skill. We have won in spite of him, not because of him. If we are not winning games by the skin of our teeth we are getting blown out. The year after the the first Patriots win we were the best team in football, maybe the best Giants team I have ever seen outside the 86 team. One player, ONE, goes down and the team falls apart. If Plax did not shoot himself we have back to back SB's. Thats on Tom. He can't even overcome ONE injury. It's not like Plax was the next LT.
@BklynNick I'm aware Myers is 6'3" while the rest of those guys are mostly 6'5" or more. When I made that comment I'm adjusting for the height difference. So in the case of Graham, I'm assuming a pass 4 inches higher. Anyway, the bottom line is Myers is almost useless. Cut him. Drag Jeremy Shockey's corpse back here to replace him for all I care.
It was not just loosing to the Eagles in 08, it was loosing the EXACT same way they had just lost a few weeks earlier and that was with maybe the 2nd best giants team in the last 40 years.
The Packers game was a Great game that TC did a great job in getting his team ready to play. Like they say, any given sunday but again, tremendous luck. Remember the last play of the 1/2? Hail mary TD? Talk about lucky and then the next week the punt return fumbles? He is the luckiest bastard alive. In comparing this game to the Eagles game, we lost that game, the eagles didn't beat us. Against the Packers we got lucky but also played great, but getting your team to play great some of the time is not the sign of a great coach. I don't remember who was the coach but I remember in the late 90's when we beat an undefeated Broncos team with Kent Graham at QB.
Bottom line for me. TC has had superior talent year in and year out and the team has underperformed most of the time. When we did win, we needed tremendous luck to do it almost every time. The giants are just like cowboys but with better luck. They both have great talent that is wasted.
@CommanderShepard @capt george I concur. While I think it's time for a change, I don't think it's fair to claim that everything the Giants have achieved during TC's tenure was in spite of him. Far from it. If you look at the entirety of TC's coaching career, you find three times--'96, '07, and '11--where he took an underdog team much further in the playoffs than anyone had predicted. That's impressive. It's also fair to say that he was never able to take a favored team (the '99 Jags, the '08 Giants) all the way. And the number of times the Giants have slipped down the stretch during his tenure also has to be factored into any assessment of his career. But to make so much of the '08 Giants losing that game to Philly--as if that tells you everything you need to know about TC--is, IMO, extremely harsh. Look at how many top-ranked teams have lost in the divisional and conference championship the last 5-10 years. How different, really, is that Giants-Eagles game of '08 from the Giants-Packers game of '11? Is Mike McCarthy a lousy coach because his 15-1 juggernaut couldn't beat a 9-7 squad that had to win its last two games to make the playoffs? Did the Giants win that game "by the skin of their teeth"? That's not how I remember it.
@CommanderShepard @BklynNick I agree on Myers. Amazing that he could be the top receiver for the Raiders last year and be this bad with the Giants. I know - its the Raiders... but STILL! At least he must have caught balls with the Raiders. He seems almost psyched out with the Giants. At this point if they don't go with Donnell I will be very disappointed. Not that I am not already disappointed...