This loss is on 6 people. Jerry Reese and the 5 members of the Offensive Line.
First off, we have been screaming for more resources at OL for years now, given the aging of Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie. Reese did not adequately provide those resources. 3 of those players are gone. Diehl is a turnstile when healthy and hurt anyway. And Snee, showing his age, is now part of the problem. Second, two of the biggest offenders today have been the LT and RT, the only 2 high OL draft picks that Reese has made in his 7 years as GM. To give the benefit of the doubt to Justin Pugh, this is his 3rd game in the NFL, but his play must get better quickly. Last, as inadequate as Reese has been with providing assets to the OL, the linemen themselves have to be able to do a better job than that. They were beaten like a drum by 4 man rushes and 7 men in the box routinely.
Will Beatty killed the Giants all day, but ironically his biggest sin may have been a holding call on a Wilson TD that would have made the game 10-7. Not only did it kill 7 points, it pushed the team to the edge of FG position, and a subsequent FG attempt was missed. Ugly.
There was some truly great news that came out of today's loss- Eli Manning was not injured. Thankfully, the franchise is still secure for one week, as Eli is still upright. But make no mistake, the Giants coaches, from Coughlin down to Flaherty, must make sure that regardless of how well or badly the OL plays from here on out, that Eli Manning is protected. With the team at 0-3 and unable to control the line of scrimmage, you better remember your priorities. Joe Gibbs, the Hall of Fame coach of the Redskins, once stated that he would not throw the ball unless he was able to block up against the pass rush.
These problems with protecting Eli (7 sacks, 6 in the first half) start with not being able to run the ball. Pass protection becomes much harder when the defense knows that it can stop the run with its front 7. Eli Manning's desperation scramble for 14 yards was 25% of the run yardage from scrimmage.
The defense was not good either. The Panthers OL controlled the line of scrimmage. Ross was undressed on a few plays. And the LBer corps was exposed underneath. Whether it was the Read Option or just tackling RBs past the line of scrimmage, the Giants allowed 194 yards on the ground. On one play, Herzlich was blocked up so easily and Williams scrambled for 27 yards. On another goal line situation, Newton ran into Jacquain Williams, who meekly threw him FORWARD, past the goal line! LT, Banks and Carson regurgitated their lunch after watching that embarrassment.
All told, the common denominator in the 3 losses this season has been the horrible play by the Giants OL. Yesterday we examined the poor grades of the OL that were handed out by Pro Football Focus in Weeks 1 & 2. Considering that it only got worse here in Week 3, this is the prime area of concern for the team. These problems surfaced more consistently last season and now they are in full boil. When other people started tweeting last week that the Giants won the Super Bowl after Coughlin was 0-2 in 2007, we said that that remark was frivolous because problems from 2012 had been carrying over to 2013. The problems at Offensive Line are chief among them.
Speaking of chief, the 0-3 Giants face a Chiefs team that will be well rested after a Thursday win vs the Eagles. KC has a very solid Defense, so the Giants Offense will have its work cut out for them.
I think brakes need to be pumped slightly, on declaring the Giants one of the few worst teams in the league. The worst team in the league isn't a play away from taking the lead vs. what many (most?) see as the BEST team in the league right before halftime.
That said, this performance was putrid on every level, and absolutely inexcusable. It was worse than any of the eggs laid last year because at least those were against "better" teams.
THAT said, football can be very emotion and momentum-based. The defense was at least "okay" for the first 25 minutes. But when your offense has less yards than the opponent has sacks, and you're on the field the entire half, some breakdown isn't really surprising. Graziano at ESPN wrote a scathing piece about how awful the Giants are; rather than underachieving. It's a little of both of course, but if Beatty's hold is not called (I personally thought it was a little ticky tack, much like a facemask called the other way against carolina's lineman at one point), do we end up with a different game?
Maybe, maybe not... and it could easily be in doubt due to how badly the oline was playing. Do the Giants have enough talent to win 10 of the final 13? Perhaps, but if the oline is going to play like this, it may end up closer to 3 of 13. Somebody mentioned Beatty being hurt. That was what I said to my dad late in the first quarter, that it looked like he was hurt or something. The line's been bad through two games, but not THIS bad. They went from a well-below-average NFL line to a line that might well get manhandled in major conference college ball, seemingly overnight...
KC's defense has been good at getting after the quarterback (if not stopping the run). Might be in for another long day.
Andy is laying off Gilbride, but his failure to adjust was frustrating. My kingdom for a screen. Or just some dink and dunk.
Worst part was, even though Andy explained how poorly he's been playing, Beatty's implosion. Especially when his holding nullified TD (okay, it wouldn't have happened without the hold) by Wilson, arguably playing with more heart than anyone on the team. Don't know what's wrong with Beatty, though he mentioned struggling to shake off first sack he gave up yesterday. Hurt?
I was contrasting Giants OL with push the Jets OL were getting yesterday. When was the last time Giants OL drove a DL back on a run play? Run blocking a problem since 2008 when Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward each ran for 1,000 yards. Remember the holes the OL used to open up, and for Tiki before that? Oh, for those halcyon days of yore.
Part of the reason why the running game has been bad is because Wilson is running scared. His fumbles against the cowboys hurt the team, but guys fumble. It wasn't an issue last year, but Coughlin decided to make an example out of him.
The coaching staff did not do a very good job of adjusting blocking assignments when it became clear that the Panthers pass rush was beating Beatty and the rest of the line. I also get the feeling that the receivers were not getting open since several of the sacks were coverage sacks.
All in all a horrible performance.
That loss is really an indictment of the entire organization from top to bottom. Losing to an average Carolina team would have been bad - to be routed by them really puts the Giants at the bottom of the league.
And it didn't help that Chase Blackburn gave them our offensive and defensive playbooks. In the words of The Terminator: " I have detailed files. "
Sorry this L is on 9 people. Cruz, Nicks and Randall could not get open against a bunch of frackin bums in the Carolina secondary.
I think you're (uncharacteristically) letting the coaching staff off too easy. Each year, the Giants, apparently with playoff or near-playoff talent, have several games where they are unable to compete, including two or three collapses (last year e.g. Cin, Atl. Bal). This is on the coaches, as well as the GM. Even with the incomplete squad Reese assembled (how many teams are complete?) there is no way this team should be that overmatched against Carolina. The offense must find a way to compete for first downs. Nobody confuses Carolina's defense with the 85 Bears. Is there really no way to block them? Maybe a couple more screen passes slows down the rush. It's one thing to lose because the GM didn't fully shore up a critical area (LB, OL) but it's another to get shut out by 38 against a winless team.
I hate to look too far down the road as depressing as that is but at this rate are they looking at 4-12? 5-11? I don't see many teams they can beat.
If the offensive line is really as bad as it appears, it could take multiple years to fix it, especially as inept as Reese has proven to be in putting together an offensive line. You would think after the money they have invested in Eli, a top notch offensive line would be #1 on the priority list. Going to be a long year....
@CommanderShepard agree with nearly everything you said. While it has gone from bad to worse from games 1+2 to yesterday, there is no way that this team, or any team, will play like they did yesterday for the entirety of a season. No need for everyone to make declarations or jump to conclusions, lets see how it plays out over the next few weeks.
I actually thought that Wilson ran *well* considering. He was driven, forced a few missed tackles.
And he may be our best pass protector after all ^^
@Dminches That would be even MORE disturbing if the receivers were not getting open against a secondary group that was supposedly so beaten up.
My biggest beef is they appeared to make so few adjustments once they saw what was happening. One obvious approach would be to take more short passes to Wilson, Cruz, Myers to move the chains. So why aren't they doing it? Does Eli not check down to those type of plays? Are they not an option? At this rate Eli won't make it through the season without getting injured.
Excellent point. Blackburn definitely helped his players and coaches prepare against his former team. We saw this back when Cofield left and then in the very first Skins game, the rookie R1 DE knew the play and pulled off a pick 6.
I agree, the pressure on Manning was pretty bad but it did look like he had *some* time on most sacks. All-22 isn't available before wednesday I think, it'll be interesting to see what was what.
At some point in H1 it did look like Manning wasn't even looking downfield much anyway, the beating had gotten in its head by then.
It's Rueben Randle by the way.
Fair points re the coaches. It's really embarrassing to see the incompetence at running the screens, something we've been complaining about for so long around here, that we even supplied an Rx before camp began. So if I'm guilty of taking a week off at railing at Gilbride, yep. Nearly every week I can pick on Gilbride, and this week, if u check my tweets during the game, I asked for two things which he came up short on- (1) adjustments after the first two offensive series and (2) protecting Eli from injury.
What is nonetheless damning re the OL is how, anecdotally speaking, the three biggest culprits today were Snee, Beatty and Pugh, and those were the three biggest in Weeks 1&2. I'll wait for the PFF data to confirm that or not. If it does confirm, then I think this problem is less coaching and more about the players and ultimately the dearth of said talent. We'll see.
@RichConforti @CommanderShepard Yep. While KC is 3-0, I don't think many people are willing to crown them yet coming off of 2-14 with most of the same personnel. After that comes the sloppy sloppy Eagle squad. Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but winning the next two leaves the Giants at worst one game back (assuming Dallas loses against Denver, but beats SD).
The lack of adjustments (both game to game and in-game) from both coordinators does not bode well though. Fewell has shown at least SOME ability to adjust game to game. When Damonster and JPP get fully healthy (if) that'll help.
What has to give us all pause though is the OL. Maybe a couple of them were banged up and we didn't know about it, and they'll work through it. Again, what explains the absolutely precipitous dropoff from much better (albeit still very lacking) play?
@ultimatenygMaybe but you used a very good word - adjustment. The opponents are adjusting and we aren't. Giant's defense was very good in the first half against Denver and decent against Dallas and Carolina at the outset. Then the opposing OC figures out how to exploit us. That's his job. Our OC didn't figure out very much at all against Denver and Carolina. It's hard to believe that the line is so weak as to not allow us to compete for first downs and set records for futility against a poor team, given the talented skill players.
@Arthuro @jfoster Don't get me wrong. I'm not "expecting" a win this week. It should be a tough game regardless, even if the Giants play "well" by usual standards. And yeah, KC probably had no business going 2-14 last year with that roster.
As has been said, there are multiple things in play here. Some injuries, Blackburn's effect, and so forth.
The KC game should tell us a lot about the team either way... unless they play "better but still sloppy with some turnovers and lapses" and lose a semi-close game. Then we still won't know much...
KC had more very high quality players than wins last year, they were not a 2-14 roster.
Their defense is better than what we faced so far and it will be a very tough game. On the offensive side Smith is really a no factor as a passer but they have a guy in the backfield that could run us over.
Outside of Fisher their OL locked pretty good to me and their DL, while not Carolina's, isn't that far off.
We got beat in the tranches vs CAR, the same thing could very well happen next sunday.
+9 in TO diff, +12 in toxic diff, +12 ppg diff. They look like their record (of course they won't go 16-0) - their pythagorean wins are at 2.5 (small sample though).
I'm not liking this at all. I have hope but
Yes, once again a theme we unfortunately know all too well about Gilbride. I love to cite my favorite of favorites, PIT in 2008. We won that game 21-14, but it took Gilbride 6 visits to the red zone to finally adjust to the Steelers loaded box.
But let's still remember that guys were gtg whipped physically up front. To tie this into Nick Olsen's remark, it's quite possible the CAR DL had a tell on pass/run which would have given them a distinct edge in their ability to defend against both.